rams temperament

[shelia]

Will a nasty temperament transfer to his offspring?

[Bigiron59]

Yep. Always has here.

[EmsoffLambs]

Are you talking mean rams during mean rams or mean rams siring unruly wethers and ewes? I have not had  enough experience with keeping rams to say if their intact sons will be mean too, but I personally have NOT seen a correlation between the temperament of the sire and that of his offspring. The most dangerous, destructive ram I have ever had was the sire of my sweetest, gentlest ewe. My mildest rams have sired my craziest ewes. Same with the wethers. I have noticed a genetic correlation between bracing at a young age (some ram's lambs really pull down when they are little while some are more apt to stand up and drive).

[PeteM]

I don't know. I think mean rams some times has to do with management. Now I have had several rams and some meaner than others. The ones that were the friendliest lambs seem to be the meanest rams. We try to keep our rams together if at all possible accept during breeding. We handle them as little as possible and if they are the friendly type, we will rub/scratch their chin and never pet above the nose or on forehead. This way if they come to you they will have their head up. Never, ever take a full grown ram for granted. They can hurt you in a bad way.

[karinfish]

Agree with Pete. Has mostly to do with management and how they are raised. That being said occasionally you run into a genuine one with a really nasty temperament but I do not think it is automatically passed to offspring.

[ARLambs]

Not enough experience to make a reliable assessment. But one of our meanest rams sired lambs that naturally braced.  From day one those lambs thought forward was their best escape plan.  Made them super easy to show.  I wonder if genetically they were more confident, their sire certainly believed he could take on the world. 

[EmsoffLambs]

I will say that I have found the Hampshire rams to be a much mellower lot overall than the Suffolk boys, so there must be some genetic component. My ram pen still bares the signs of when I was using Suffolk rams. Those guys would look for trouble and hunt you down if they got the inclination. The Hamps I've had, on the other hand, at worst might take advantage of a moment when you'd let your guard down. With this said, the two time I've made the mistake of letting myself be hit by a ram, it was with hamp rams that had never shown any aggression at all. I got too comfortable with them and didn't watch them closely enough. One got me when my back was turned, the other when my arms were full of hay. Those mean ones, I knew better than to ever give them a chance. Moral of the story: Don't ever trust any ram!

[Don Drewry]

My rams tend to be cowardly fighters like Crystals.  They leave me alone as long as I can defend myself but if my arms are full they'll take their shot.  Same rams, kept alone by my partners tend to be much more aggressive when alone.  Might be some genetic component but management is a much larger component IMO.

[EmsoffLambs]

That is true, Don. Back when I had the suffolks, I kept them alone, so perhaps that had as much to do with their aggression as their breed.

[karinfish]

Ya have to disagree on breed determining aggressiveness and say it is much more to do with being alone versus pen mates.  Meanest ones I have ever had was the Caprock son from the Millers (all hamp) and he would stalk you and then sneak up on you when you weren't looking and the Trueblood son from the Wheaton's (again all hamp) and he would give no warning like backing up and instead quickly slam his head sideways three of four times with no warning.  Not going to kill you but sure would hurt.  Best ones were Juice from Goodwins (mostly Suffolk) so gentle!  Paparazzi (registered Hamp) big puppy, and now Burn Notice from Rule (Hamp) lap dog.  Of course never trusting any especially Pappy since I think he must weigh 300 pounds.  Ouch. 

[tsylvester]

Interesting topic....Lets talk a bit more about management practices.  For you folks who pen them together; when you get a new buck do you throw him in with others and just close your eyes and let them work it out?  I want to run ours together but just don't have the guts I guess.  Are there steps you go through to get them together without killing each other?

[EmsoffLambs]

I use the ram shields. Put them in a fairly small pen (16' x 16') and scatter some tires on the ground to trip them up too. Then put the shields on them as tight at I can get them. Otherwise they can get them off. Then keep a close eye on them throughout the day. After about four days I can take the shields off with no problems. I will only pen similarly sized rams together. Definitely no ram lambs with mature rams.

[Bigiron59]

I turn mine together in pen . I may lock in a 12 by 12 pen in the barn for a day. Mostly turn them together and walk away.  Turned ram lambs together the other day. 3 of them , each had a gruop of ewe lambs. After day 18 , all pens were run together . 2 had been together on and off for months. Other had not. The hamp challenge his twin brother. The 3 run and hit and then backed up the lenght of the pen. About 40 feet. I started to intervene , when the aggressor decided he had enough and walked away. Fights over.
You baby them and you will make them mean. The meanest I have ever had was a southdown,  and both a hamp and Suffolk were next. None were the dominant ram in pen, all were fine in gruop with a dominate ram. All would hunt you if not with a dom ram and forget about getting in a pen with them and ewes. They lasted one season here. Hamp is still breeding at 9 years old at farm I sold him to and is still a " killer ".
Culled a yearling hamp last spring as was just plain mean , and one if his sons( crossbred) would charge and butt before weaning. He got worse as he got older and was just plain mean by market weight.
 With all the good mannered well bred sheep available, no need for anyone to keep a killer around.

[karinfish]

I close pen in 5 by 5 for 2 or three days. I like aged Rams with ram lambs as the ram lamb doesn't challenge older bigger.

[Bigiron59]

Karen, I would say you are lucky. I have never seen a ram lamb NOT challenge. Just like the teenagers they are. Young, dumb and full of themselves. An old ram may or may not respond.  Most dominant old rams , can "stare" most of these kids down, but some kids still need to talk sh-t and want to fight. Depending on old rams attitude will depend on how hard he hits the kid. And how stupid the kid is. On a rare occasion the kid strikes a lucky bkow and will kill ole guy. I have never had that happen. Usually the kid is killed if he does not submit. I also have not had that happen, but have seen that at several ops in my area.  Most of them were In ops that penned mature rams alone and ram lamb got into enclosure or wrong pen at breeding.  Most of those ops used to single pen mature Rams. Most now pen matures together and have less aggressive rams. I have penned ram lambs with matures, but the nutritional needs are so different ,that ram lambs were thin and old guys were fat.
 It is funny to watch a "patient" old guy tolerate a pestering kid to a point. At some time the old guys has had enough and a staggering punch to the head,much like Rhonda Rousey  endured  , will change the kids mind as to who is boss.If not, a career killing blow will stop it at some point.  Various breeds can be aggressive, and I trust none. I try to always have something in my hand to fend off any sheep that violates my personal space. A 3 foot piece of 1 inch plastic water pipe works nicely and makes enough noise and sting to keep them at arms length. And if I really lay Into one, will not do damage. Mostly I just cull them .