The Lamb Pen
General Category => All Sheep and Lamb Discussion => : meyersshowlambs December 26, 2015, 06:21:47 AM
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Interested in who has tried the Honor EXP 15 Pellet DX?
Pro's & con's from their experience.
Who's going back to it again?
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Used some a couple years ago. Cost to much for the volume I need. But I see tractor supply stocks and sells it. If I was a a kid feeding 3 lambs, would likley be a good choice.it was priced at 18.50 a bag at tsc.
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I think that was back when corn was near !8 / bu. Shouldn't be near that now. And it's intended as a creep feed not necessarily for kids that have 1 or two lambs (although their lambs wil certainly do well on it).
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We have used it, but not really as a creep feed. We use it on younger greener already weaned lambs that need more cover. We feed it straight or mixed it with the Honor 18 text feed. Here it was running $16/bag while the text feed was close to $20. I felt like we got equal results with it as we did with adding supplements like power fuel for a much more affordable price. JMO
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Hi Cindy, Was hoping you or Darren would chime in as I remembered you guys saying you had used it. Yeah I was thinking of it as a creep.
Shane, did you use it as a creep? Aside from the price you say it would be a good choice. Why? I liked Honor's regular creep and I get along great with ShowRite creep. Just interested in actual results of people using the EXP.
Kevin, have you got feedback from creep users?
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Kgb,this was in a tractor supply 2 days ago at that price point. Sioux Falls SD. I have come to the conclusion that the bloom (fat) needed on sale lambs ,dictates use of a much lower protein creep feed. Conventional wisdom ,is yojng stock utilizes protein and needs more protein to support rapid growth. But buyers are currently buying fat. So a higher energy,lower protien will add that.
Observation over many years,is that most peoples ewes milk less than they think they do. Lower milk production, drives lambs to eat more creep. Also ,the amount of energy that many feed ewes may limit milk production. Ewes,like Dairy cows ,need protein to produce milk.
My ewes milk heavier than many, and getting enough intake to get something out of creep is hard. My lambs have minaml creep intake until at least 4 weeks, and weaning lbs at 45 days would be disastrous here. I am hard pressed to dry ewes up by 60 days. Or more. So I use a high energy low protein creep to get more energy into lambs. And I can buy a very high quality 16 grower for about 9.00 for a 50 lb bag and make it for about 5 So I do that. Would I use Honor, if I did not use current product. Yes. I would likely use Grand lamb mixer,but would use this to start lambs.
Great product. Available most anywhere, and proven . It likely comes down to what you can buy fresh and local.
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I believe the feed going to Sioux Falls is made at Clarence, IA and would have a little freight involved. It works as both a creep or a growing/developing feed. You are right about fat on lambs. A lot of folks cannot project a green lamb and visualize what it could be. So, making the lamb fatter helps them do that.
For reviews on EXP, climb lamb breeders really like it. Very palatable (more so than even the 20% HSC Showlamb Creep). Lambs do well on it and it makes a difference in their appearance.
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Also the high vs lower protein thing; my view is that in most quality wether type sheep today muscle is not the limiting factor. It's bred into them. They just need more energy (calories) to fuel not only fat cover and growth but lean tissue synthesis (muscle) as well. For sheep that are naturally easier doing like Southdowns etc... A higher protein creep and growing feed makes more sense. And for those sheep that need help with muscle.
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Freight,much like corn prices have fallen from couple years ago. Good product, and retailers must be profitable to remain in business. Purina has investment in R &D and has to make a profit. Consumer will decide if price point is right for them. I may check my local dealer, and may try some. But happy with current product. Others have fewer options. Surprising ,with many hubbard dealers in my area,Showrite is problematic to get a hold of. And I am not going to chnage brands halfway through season. My Purina guy can have anything on Tuesday, as long as order in by previous Friday. That's service , and worth a lot.
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Kgb, I would agree that energy is the limiting factor on BF wether sheep , although not sure that increasing fat in the ration is the best way to address that.
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Lee, we feed the Honor creep fed and have for 3 to 4 years. I have my own ration that is similar from a feed analysis but the lambs don't eat it quite as well and we don't get the bloom on them. The number 1 advantage of the Honor creep feed and a similar "show feed/creep feeds" are they are highly palatable to young lambs. Regardless of the percent protein, fat and minerals you got to get the lamb to eat a lot to get the bloom kids like to pay for.
I haven't decided if I'm going to feed it this year or not as our local mill would do just like BI's, and get you whatever you want if you order by Tuesday. I think they lost their dealer status due to low volume so I have found another local dealer yet.
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Don, Are you talking about the EXP15?
I have used the 20% Honor creep and liked the results and loved the way it smelled. The lambs ate it well but I can not say that consumption was any better than the ShowRite creep that I normally use. The lambs like it too. Just looking for results of the EXP 15 from start to weaning. I have got a few responses privately and so far nothing bad. I think I'm going to give it a try this year. Actually tomorrow:)
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Lee, we've used it for a couple years now and don't have any complaints. Once our lambs get started on it they do really well.
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Good deal Charley, thank you!
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Shane:
For pre-ruminant lambs (under 45 days old or so) fat is the best choice in my opinion. Fat deposition at an age prior to maturity comes from energy left over after meeting maintenance and then production requirements. Again, in my opinion there is no other way to do that in fast growing young lambs than fat in the diet.
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I realize that Kevin. But observation ,over many years ,has lead me to believe that creep,/starter with 5 percent fat or more leads to more problems than it solves. Most people do not read, so continue on the same feed program ,long after 45 days. So now high fat content is detrimental to rumen function, and leads to other problems.
Many will disagree.Seen lots of lambs , with lots of digestive problems, get rid of the fat, and they will straighten out.
I should likely say veg fat. I expect most high quality feeds use some animal fats or some other than just soy and corn.
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I Have fed the Honors exp dx for 2 years in a row and I loved it. The cons: cost too much and sometimes the feed had alot of powder. Pros less feed more bloom they love the feed easy for them to eat due to the small pellets. This year i am going to stick to a sweet feed and add calf manna to it to add more protien.
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I would NOT feed Calf Manna. Too much copper. In fact, it says right on the label not to feed it to sheep. Plus you aren't going to have enough fat to get bloom on your lambs.
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What we call bloom on lambs is fat. The more energy in the ration the more fat the lamb will put on. Adding protein to a feed won't get them fatter, it will make sure their muscles grow to their natural state. Fat works as it is very dense so you get a lot of energy for the amount they eat. IMO you'd be better off adding soybean oil to the sweat feed to get it to be 5-7% total fat than adding MR, (Calf or lamb). Sheep milk is frequently over 7% fat so I wouldn't be concerned feeding that percent fat in a creep ration.
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Long story short, is that there is no problem with a creep feed with 5% crude fat if it is properly formulated. If fed ad libitum (self fed) to older nursing lambs (10 weeks plus) that really begin to eat large amounts, you can see soft stools.
At that time if you do not want to wean the lambs, then my suggestion is to hand feed in the creep feeder twice per day. A 75 lbs plus lamb does not need to be self fed. Just my opinion.
Again, EXP is safe. As well as our Showlamb Creep Pellet DX (20% protein creep) ... it has contains 5% crude fat for several years.
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Last year we used the Lamb Slam High Performance as a creep feed. It's 6.7% fat. I was worried that this might be too high, but the lambs thrived on it. It was highly palatable and predictably, they were nice and bloomy. Many are now using this feed all the way through to market. We fed one lamb all the way through and were pretty happy with is performance. Stayed on feed, grew well but didn't get too fat. I was happy with it.
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Curious about the Calf Manna. Back in the 70's (I'm dating myself) we mixed our own feed. We used Sweet COB, dried beans or peas and Calf Manna. Never lost anyone to copper nor had we heard about either in high school or junior college ag. Did they change the formula somewhere along the way?
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I don't know if their formulation changed, but here is the label. Note no sheep are listed. On the sack though it says to not feed to sheep. https://www.mannapro.com/products/cattle/cattle (https://www.mannapro.com/products/cattle/cattle)
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A couple of years ago I was about to purchase a bag of Calf Manna and I saw that the label said to not feed to sheep. When I purchased it decades ago the label gave instructions on how much to feed to sheep. I would assume that back then it didn't contain copper. I wonder why the change.
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I fed the 15%DX a few years ago to try it. Unfortunately I did not have very good results and ended up feeding roughly 3/4 ton to the ewes. At the time, I was not alone in having a problem getting lambs to eat any considerable amount of the feed. After a few weeks of trying and finally leaving a few differnt rations out, we made the decision to switch. I have two problems with the feed - Number 1, it's pelleted. Numerous research articles suggest that young ruminant animals fed texturized feeds consume more, wean with higher ADG and also gain more per pound of feed than those that were fed pelleted feeds. Number 2, I feel like the fat level in the feed is too high. Along with BI I have seen sheep fed higher fat rations that have a harder time converting, etc.
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Josh, I have fed the Honor 20% creep before and the lambs ate it like crazy. I felt they did well on it too. At 5% fat it's only a little lower than the EXP which is 5.5%. The extra fat noticeably bloomed my lambs vs. the ShowRite Lamb Power which is 4%. I was more concerned with the lower protein in the EXP at 15%. I think that is the same as the Smooth start you use. I was interested in that too but never heard back from you. I didn't realize that the Smooth start is texturized. I like the mini pellet that a lot use these days. Lambs seem to consume it well and there is no sorting. I have started my lambs this year on the EXP. I have 2 week old lambs eating it with the older lambs. It smells and looks just like their 20% creep. So far I am impressed.
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So if people aren't feeding the correct protein and energy to milking ewes what is the proper percentages to feed them
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I would venture to say that 60% or more of the producers in Texas are using a texturized feed nowadays. The biggest problem that we run into with textured is as the flies pick up it atracts them and that can create some problems if coccidia and other pathogens are not in check. I will admit - the 15%DX smelled really good - I just had terrible luck getting them to eat it.
The most important thing with any feed, not just creep, is freshness and consistency, and that your lambs eat it. Passed that I would venture to say that among the top feeds from Caliafornia to New York most sheep are going to do pretty well on them.
On the lower protein as many had mentioned earlier - I think as genetically powerful as most of these things are these days - they can get plenty of go out of a 15%.
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So if people aren't feeding the correct protein and energy to milking ewes what is the proper percentages to feed them