The Lamb Pen
General Category => All Sheep and Lamb Discussion => : Symonomonymonom June 19, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
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We recently had a lamb brought into our barn that had been purchased through an auction. About last Tuesday, he became very sick - scours, moaning, lethargy, and blood in his stool the following morning. After taking fecal samples to the vet, we found that there were a large population of coccidia in his system. Our vet gave us some Corid to treat him & the other three lambs with (as they likely picked up the coccidia from being in contact with him) and we've now completed the treatment but he continues to have scours. They're getting electrolytes in their water and he's been on and off his feed. In addition to the coccidiosis, he's just developed sore mouth, but he's showing more interest in eating than he was. He's really lost a lot of weight. Is there anything that I can do to help curb the scours & put some weight on him?
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If you gave the Corid at label dosage it likely had very little effect.
If using the premixed Corid, Drench it full strength to each individual lamb for 5 days straight at a rate of 1 1/2 ml per 10 lbs. bodyweight (15ml/100 lbs.). Give a shot of vitamin B complex on the 3rd day. Repeat this 5 day treatment every 3-4 weeks.
If using the powder Corid, mix it 5/8 cup per 16oz. water, then drench at the same rate.
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Some people swear by Corid, some swear at it. I suspect its effectiveness depends on whether the strain you are dealing with is resistant to Corid or not. It sounds to me like you are dealing with a resistant strain. Most people find that sulfadimethoxine (Albon or Sulmet) is most effective. Give the cattle dosage.
As far as feed, if he's reluctant to eat his grain, make sure you are giving him plenty of hay. His gut is pretty damaged and hay will help get it back on track.
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I have yet to experince or hear of anyone else experiencing the Corid not working if given at the rate I showed.
I think it is more likely to say that the Corid was under dosed than to say that your dealing with a resistant strain.
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After analyzing the fecal samples, the vet said we were dealing with 2 strains of coccidiosis. Since he knew this, I'm betting that he gave us the proper medication & dosage. The lambs were getting 30mL daily for 5 days. He seems improved - he's more active, showing interest in eating - but his diarrhea still persists.
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Lee, Corid has always worked well enough for me at the labeled dosage, but I know some say it doesn't work for them. I cannot speak as to the dosage they give. Fortunately there are multiple products available so if one doesn't work, hopefully the other does.
How runny are the scours? Coccidosis, especially if severe, damages the intestinal lining. It which take a few days, even after treatment, for the stool to firm up. If it's mushy, I won't worry too much but liquidy/runny, I would be concerned that he needs continued treatment. Keep in mind too, that because of the damage, the lamb may fail to thrive for a few weeks or even a couple months. If treated early, before too much damage occurs they bounce back pretty quickly, but the fact that there was blood in the stool and he was in physical pain suggests to me that it was pretty severe.
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I can only suggest what I have experienced to work for me and many others. It's up to you if you want to try it.
Symonomonymonom, you will find that many vets don't know much about sheep. I am fortunate enough to have an experienced sheep breeder for a vet.
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I would run another fecal just to see if the coccidiosis is gone. Also give the lamb Probios for 5 days or so. I was taught that when drenching with Corid (and perhaps other coccidiostats) that it kills off the good bacteria in the gut. When drenching with Corid in the morning, give Probios in the evening. Continue the Probios for 2 or 3 days after you complete the course of Corid. Hope your lamb gets healthy soon.
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i dont believe corid has any or only minimal impact on bacteria in the gut. The potential is for polio to follow treatment with corid. Hence the advice to use b 12 or B complex or thiamine. Sheep do not get b 12 from normal sources like other livestock. They must manufacturer it. Corid blocks that mechanism, which cocidia also need. so by stopping thiamine/b 12 production, the cocidia die. And its kills both kinds. However the lamb needs the thiamine to prevent polio. So the trick is to kill the cocci without killing the lamb.
and if severe,damage is permanent and lambs never recover.
this was topic of "bull session" one evening at Sedalia. Most breeders fought this this year,particully in March lambs in my flock.
I may not lamb in march , or may be going back to using rumensen in that gruop of ewes / lambs.
Here, lactasoid ( bovatech) does nothing unless fed at very high rate in lambs.
i have couple "march skeletons " left walking. Likly will knock them tommorrow, as I am tired of looking at them and taking up a pen in my barn.
My thoughts are here, during that cold snow,hot,wet,mud,rain, time line, lambs drink from puddles in the yards. They get infected and overwhelms thier system. Early lambs are on frozen ground anf aprils are on concrete. Only gruop I ever have problems with is Marchs. And usually only 1. But this year had 3 of these.
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Shane, Really enjoyed conversation with you and Mike and wish we could have had more.
I really think your thoughts on infestation in that age group was interesting and to add to it, I believe that I cause or at least help the condition to worsen in that age group due to lack of attention. Sad but true. Early lambs get more attention. I start the Corid treatments at 3-4 weeks of age. I sometimes don't get around to the early treatment on the later ones and then struggle to get them to convert feed after weaning. Your solution for them is probably the way to go. Would free up some space in the barn too. Lol.
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I have more issues once things start thawing out too. And Lee, you aren't alone. Those late lambs get neglected compared to the early lambs. I had it running through my late set of May lambs due to the rapid weather changes. I never got around to treating them and it cleared up in a few days. I am guessing, with it being dry, they just got a light load and were able to clear it compared to the earlier spring lambs that are contending with heavier loads due to mud. We did finally buy a tractor so that will REALLY help with keeping pens cleaner and drier in the winter/spring, so hoping that helps. I have found that it's much less of a problem when I add Deccox to the ewes' salt prior to lambing. But again, this gets missed with the later lambers.
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Anybody use Baycox? Popular over seas, not approved in US, but easy to get.
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Never heard of it.
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http://animalhealth.bayer.co.za/scripts/pages/en/livestock/cattle/baycox_5.php
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Last year we used Marquis sp? with great success. It took a while to get the script and my recollection it was really expensive. So this year we didn't do it and our experience with March lambs is apparently the same as others. I thought I got the idea from ARLambs, and it looks like if that's true you guys aren't using it anymore or at least thinking of not using it.
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We are still using Marquis, runs us about $1/lamb, we give a single dose at weaning. Baycox looks more cost effective and would be dosed earlier.
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I know in our area it became unavailable...yes, expensive but very effective. Marquis was a great product. Can others still get it? It's actually a horse medication so you have to know a sheep and goat vet who understands how it works. Maybe that became a widespread problem. I know we just couldn't get it anymore the last 2 years.
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Was not happy with experience with Marquis either. Use 40% sulfadimethoxine injectable currently with corid oral.
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pen is empty and compost heap is fuller.
I dont think I neglect them any more,but typically dont lamb wether ewes in that time. Last year had a couple old ewes lamb late and couple ewe lambs get bred early. Will moniter that better. The commercial ewes that lamb during that time, have no issues.
I still think fundamentally it goes back to immune system . The ones I have problems with are
1-old or thin ewes getting one last crop. They milk way less and lambs are borderline thinner. Also believe that impaired milk production will comprimise immune function in the offspring. Likely because of poor colostrum production or quality.
2- 1st time moms with twins on. Over 65 percent of my hamp and dorset ewe lambs had twins . Again, lower colostrum and milk production first parity. This gruop is still getting thier immune systems firing on all cylinders, so cant expect the abs to be all that and bag of chips.
Always good to visit Lee , and looks like you found something to feed the addiction. NO Shortage of rams here. The Klienert ram and 2 sons will see service and the yearling that worked will as well.
Bringing back the Amyx Dorset ,may not use the Daniels ram, picked up one from Jay Nelson to sample,a son of the Daniels ram still here, and semen sales abound.
no shortage of ram options to feed the demon☺
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I really appreciate your discussion about coccidiosis. My daughter and I are on our 3rd day of treating two lambs penned together with corid due to mushy feces. They have not gone off feed. I am treating them at 2.5 ML per gallon of water. Does this sound right? Do I treat the other two lambs housed in another pen about 50 feet away from the infected one's? Thanks for your input...
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I wouldn't expect that small of a dosage to have any affect on a coccidia load. Only way to know how much an individual lamb is consuming is to drench them individually. Do all lambs at the dosage rate I gave at the beginning of this post. They quite often get a moister stool by the 3rd day of treatments, due to shedding the coccidia, but will solid up by the 4th or 5th day. These treatments are very effective for more than just the clinical signs like diarrhea. They will make a big difference in appetite and feed conversion.