The Lamb Pen
General Category => All Sheep and Lamb Discussion => : EmsoffLambs June 29, 2015, 12:11:46 PM
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I've got a six month old ewe in my keeper pen that isn't prolapsing, but her rectum is rather "loose." It looks about like this most of the time. Am I just asking for trouble keeping this girl? Will she inevitably prolapse when I breed her?
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/EmsoffLambs/temporary.jpg)
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I am curious about this too, I have seen sheep like this.
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If it was me, I'd take the chance and breed her, she may never prolapse, then again she might, if that's the case you can fix a rectal prolapse pretty easily.
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Iodine shots now. Should be fine later.
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With many choices in most barns, she would not be a "keeper" here. Why ask for trouble?. But we all define keeper in a lot of different ways.Fat lamb is worth 225 to kill here. Prolapsed yearling ewe that did not raise a lamb, is worth maybe 100 . Easy choice .She ain't worth nothing if she ends up on compost heap.
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So basically you'd be keeping her and giving up $225. If she raises one lamb, she paid for herself, if she raises 2 lambs you doubled your money, 3 lambs...
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I would keep her especially if she has been being pushed for rapid growth, it will stop as soon as she is treated like a ewe.
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She got pretty fat early so I kicked her out with the ewes for a month when she was about four months old. She's in better condition now. I have had bred ewes prolapse and have yet to lose one of them. Iodine injections and a prolapse harness until they lamb and then they're fine to raise their lambs. I just don't want to perpetuate a genetic problem. Just wondering what everyone else's experience has been with ewe lambs that look like this. Do they usually prolapse?
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Lots of ways to the end of the race. You evidently have decided to take the risk. Others seem as well to agree. Here , she be lamb chops. With 200 head of ewes and growing, I don't have time for any of the production methods you are suggesting to keep here productive. With a growing segemnt of my rams going into large commercial flocks, having one of these type here , when a prospective ram shopper is here, is to risky for me. These guys will want to see "momma", and nothing will kill a sale quicker than seeing one of these. I know we all think we can " fix" these, but I sell more and more rams each year into large commercial flocks.So she gets culled here.
From a buyers perspective, are you going to buy a daughter, or Stud Ram out of one of these you fixed.
I don't have problems with these, because I culled them as they happened years ago.Her other 10 penmates did not do this. What makes her worth keeping, when none of her other peers did not do this.
Just playing the devils advocate.
Also , know the most of you are saying you will keep them, means 3 flocks that I am likely not interested investing in genetic peices from.
Just saying.
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No. In the experiences I've had, with ewe lambs that look like that, they do not usually prolapse due to gestating. The iodine shots have worked great for me to hold them in until they are , as Cindy said, "treated like a ewe". The "Rosebudding" rectal prolapse has seemed to be hereditary but only has lasted for me during their growing months while being pushed with grain. A full blown prolapse, at a young age, might be a different consideration.
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What is the correlation with grain? Is it internal fat? And can it affect wethers/rams too? Just wanting to learn :)
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While I know it can occur, prolapsing is MUCH less common in males than it is in female. I have personally never had a ram/wether prolapse. And yes, internal fat can contribute to prolapse as it simply takes up more room internally.
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I think feeding them hard increases the internal fat and pushes the rectum, however, I have seen plenty of overly fat ewe lambs that never do that, so there is a huge genetic component.
My issue with keeping a lamb like this is that she might produce a lamb, probably the best in the barn (cause it always seems to work out like that) that will do this or prolapse worse. Yes, selling 1 lamb makes your money back in feed but what about the kid that calls 3 months later cause his lamb is prolapsing and can't fix it. Not worth the headache in my opinion, plus you never know when the prolapse gene will rear its head later on and ruin your best lamb. Kind of like parrot mouths. 1 great great grandmother twice removed had it and the ewe lamb you wanted to keep cause she's the last of her line, etc is off in her mouth. I've probably opened a can of worms with that one, but all I'm saying is that's how these defects pop up later on and can bite you. People say " where did that come from, the parents were fine" but somewhere back in the pedigree there was a parrot mouth/ prolapser/ etc, that was too good to cull.
So I guess my answer/opinion of the original question of is that ewe lamb asking for trouble, yes. Either she is or her lambs will be. Just my 2 cents
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Crystal, I am in agreement with Shane on this one. The last few years we had the Dorsets our local vet used to give me a hard time about starving him to death. LOL I am pretty sure that you have plenty of good replacement ewe lambs to not keep a potential problem that can very easily turn into bigger problems. The iodine works but it basically hides the problem instead of curing it. I'd take the market cash and run. JMHO
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If you like her quality, I think you should keep her to experiment with. I'm sure the feed costs to find out won't break you, and the $200 you might get for her now won't make you. So why not keep her around and find out what happens? You might end up marketing some perfectly good females over the years if you don't find out for yourself if it's a problem. Just my opinion.
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"If you like your ewe, you can KEEP your ewe."
And that's exactly what I'd do. We have a ewe lamb on 3 legs now in keeper pen, I almost kept a parrot mouthed ewe lamb that was bred well enough to pamper through this breeding season to see what she would have but local FFA chapter needed 2 market lambs when we only had one to offer so she moved on. I like Jimmy's idea to think of it as an experiment. If it doesn't work out, send her on. Risk/reward ratio is pretty good.
In 2012 Dustin pulled a lamb back off our trailer headed to the sale barn that was overlooked by buyers at $300 and asked if we could keep it. His experiment earned him Champion prospect on OSS, Reserve Division Champion at our state fair and a class winner at American Royal. I got a chuckle because it was around the same time that I saw on Facebook a saying "Good sheep aint cheap and cheap sheep aint good". Scott Greiner, Josh Cody, Vance Christie and the rest of the OSS judges all found our little bargain bin keeper. Since then, Dustin has 100% control of what we keep, cull and purchase.
In 2009 we bought a ewe in Sedalia for $450(Largely in part due to nasty thunderstorm rolling through towards end of sale driving buyers to get out) from McIlrath. She almost made the sale at our state fair. She prolapsed her uterus at lambing requiring emergency vet call at 12:00 AM. Her lamb that year made the sale at our State Fair. We have built almost half of our flock from that ewe despite people telling us we should cull her because of the uterine prolapse and none of them have had a problem. And at 6 years old, she is the oldest and fattest ewe on grass that we have today. EASY keeper.
Sometimes you just got to go with your gut. Or your 11 year olds gut. Both of my examples are fairly low dollar risks. We have taken more expensive risks that didn't work out at all but those 2 successes are why I don't rule out risks if I can afford the gamble.
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Bigiron Im with you on this one. Ill go step further any maternal sisters are gone and yes her mother too If she is still here. Another thing is mine go to the local sale barn NOT a bred ewe sale. Ive purchased many cull ewes from these bred ewe sales in may sold 4 ewes that I paid $6450 for them got check for $505 . Im a pretty slow learner Ill probably buy again just not from the same breeders.
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Dam is six years old and going strong. Never an issue with her. She's produced two stud rams and this is her third keeper daughter, and plus I've retained four granddaughters and a grandson. She's not going anywhere. I think I will take a chance on this girl since it sounds like a prolapse is not inevitable.
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Would be interested to see a whole picture of the lamb. Did discuss this issue with various breeders at Sedalia. My guess is that ewe is shorter bodied. The quest for moderate ,fuzzy, round sheep has lead to many short bodied , shorter hipped, compact ,"moderate" sheep. Same amount of guts and muscle, jammed into a frame that is 2/3 rds of what it used to be.
That is what makes this fun.
I like sheep that are longer than tall. Longer bodied ,wide based ewes have more gut capacity, but also may be later maturing. That is not currently in vogue.
As one breeder commented at Sedalia. "Some guys will tell you about how many dollars thier flock has generated, or how many dollars each ewe has sold lambs for. Other will tell you about the ewes and rams they have sold to other breeders that generated for those breeders. One type breeds sheep that breed on. One type is " making" sheep the sell for high dollars.
You can "make" this ewe productive , or you can breed sheep that breed on.
I choose to try to breed sheep that breed on, and breeding on means culling hard for defects.
I am not sure that my values are of the type it takes to "make " sheep that sell for high dollars.
I hope that I can breed sheep that breed on and sell for repectable sums of money. And that would be any breeders goal.
But I know that if I buy a ewe from someone that starts throwing defects, I likely am culling and likely not going back .
She will likely be fine and generate for you.
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She's not short bodied or short hipped or too "moderate." Quite the opposite. She's easily the biggest, growthiest and probably the longest sided, longest hipped ewe lamb in the pen. She is round ribbed but has plenty of gut capacity. Plenty of length and frame to her.
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I have a ewe that has lambed 7 years - twins every year and she has what I call a lazy rectum. Never used iodine - never really ever changed. I liked the ewe real well and made the decision to keep her. It was worth the gamble - she has produced well for me. I wouldn't do anything with it unless it starts to flower more.
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This is not as much of a reply but another question concerning rectal prolapse. We bought a Registered Dorset Advantage that was born March 1 and already weighs 112# but she's tall, thick and growthy. Yes admittedly she is too fat already but we haven't even started a rigorous exercise regimen yet. We planned to show her and then keep her to breed. When she coughs her rectum already prolapses about 2 inches but does go back in completely. We noticed that she coughs every time after eating grain and also after eating hay as well therefore she is coughing multiple times a day. She definitely has the flower (loose skin that looks bright pink) around the rectum. I understand your replies about the future in breeding her but how is this obvious problem going to affect her show career? For example what if she coughs when in show ring and her prolapse is exposed to the judge.
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Fix the cough first thing. Draxxin is the best choice for that, in my opinion. After that give the iodine shots to help hold in. Use the search on "My lamb" for tons of info on the procedure or search places like Pipestone Vet.
A local vet may be an easier way to get both done at once.