The elephant in the room

[EmsoffLambs]

I've been contemplating, as I consider the tone that I hope this forum will carry into the future, whether or not to post this here or not. I've finally decided that it should be shared since social media everywhere else seems to be ablaze with it. The use of illegal drugs in show animals has finally received enough media attention to get some notice outside the show industry itself.

I personally hate to see ANY negative spotlight being shown on the industry that I love and one that is already under increasing fire from the animal rights sector, budget cuts and more. However, it's out there now and it's time for the vast majority of showmen, who are honest and who do play by the rules, to stand up and make it known how GREAT this industry really is, that we will not stand by and knowingly allow animals to be abused or potentially dangerous meat to enter the food supply. I have been critical of show officials for not taking a harder stand against the perpetrators. This article does clarify for me a bit the huge challenge that those official face. I don't have answers other than that I hope honest people will stop financially supporting those who repeatedly seem to be involved in these "scandals." 

Let's please try to keep all discussion civil. No name calling, no character bashing of other forum members or anyone else. If specific names want to be mentioned, don't do it here on the public forum. Use the private message feature if you must.

http://www.wthr.com/story/29653507/drugged-animals-disqualified-kids-punished-at-indiana-state-fair#.VbhILiF-nbk.facebook

[tsylvester]

Indeed the show world has become a breeding ground for cheaters.  It can be very frustrating for us clean folks. Us clean folks know who is on the juice and who isn't, cheaters please know we are not stupid- we know!  In my house we show to be together as a family, have fun and be competitive.  We are there for our kids, they are not my sheep and my kids just pop in to show them, they have a stake in them everyday.  The character of my children is far more important than winning, building a name, power, prestige, selling sheep or a banner.

If the penalties were stiffer and more public it would disappear.  I know we continually say we can't talk about this in public and we need to keep it from Peta folks but that hasn't worked, it needs to be exposed and the folks need to be named and punished.  We have overheard a conversation at a Texas major where several "top" breeders were bragging about the number of banners they have versus the few checks they have received for those banners due to failing drug tests.  This is truly disheartening, they are able to brag about this because all they need is a picture with a banner and folks flock to their farms to buy lambs at crazy prices. 

At the end of the day we try to just stay "ignorant" and focus on why we are there showing and remember these are just sheep....They only bring about a hundred dollars at the meat market no matter how pretty they are:)

[AF32197]

If the show industry wants PETA and other rights groups to shut them down just let things continue as they are currently. The 'do anything to win jocks' and the breeders and exhibitors that work with them are going to destroy from within.  I had cancer a couple years ago and it reminds me of this situation in that you cannot ignore it and hope it goes away. It will destroy you! I have loved this industry for a lot longer than most of you have been alive. Animals that are drugged and brought to shows need to be penalized the same as if you introduced them in to the food chain at the local market. I have been laughed at and ridiculed in the past when I have said that sooner or later the media was going to get involved. It has happened at too many big shows in a short span of time and there are no ways to put the Genie back in the bottle. Too many breeders want the 'super jocks' to have their lambs because they can make them winners and make them money. Exhibitors pay these jocks to help them win big banners and maybe make a little money. I am now and always have been passionate about this subject !

[shadowran]

In the last fair I attended after the final drive all I heard from one family is "they used tis product cause theres no way a lamb could look like that without cheating" I lost all respect for the person telling me this and without proof how can someone say that? we ad supplements and all are legal I will not let any kid do that at our place.

still at our fair it has open itself to cheating and we brought it up last year and still nothing, in other words there is no proof of ownership for the 60 mandatory days someone could take buy a lamb 5 days before the fair all they need is a scrapie tag number

[Don Drewry]

Seems to be improvements would involve some of these things:
- consistent drug testing at all the major state fairs and national shows
- testing positive would result in ban of showing for that person & immediate family for a long time period at all the major shows doing drug testing in addition to the show tested positive at
- biometric IDs, I know American Royal and Askarben do this.  They used to do it with hair samples, not sure if that's still the case.  I think Iowa and some other states use retina scans.
- relatively cheap things such as web cams in the barns and areas where the sheep are allowed at the shows would greatly reduce tampering claims
- People that don't cheat but see first hand others that are cheating really do need to speak up to the show authorities
If you want a cleaner show pressure your show authorities for things like this

[SnarkyArkie]

"People that don't cheat but see first hand others that are cheating really do need to speak up to the show authorities
If you want a cleaner show pressure your show authorities for things like this"

And what if its the show authorities that are bringing in known jocks that have been DQ'd in the past due to doped animals? What if several people suspect the only reason someone stepped into the show authority position was to make sure the rules don't get changed for tougher drug testing or to make sure the rules stay within the confines of that persons agenda? Just because someone has a title like Superintendent or President doesn't mean they stopped giving Depo shots.

As far as the national or open shows and jackpots go, I don't really care, but to taint the industry on a County, District or State Fair level where kids must be 4-H or FFA members only puts a black eye on those programs. And if those special interest groups get a hold of it, you might just see an end to it. Don't shush those that are fighting to improve the industry by saying "bringing this to the open is no good for the industry". Be vocal against those doing illegal activity. I think a lot of the folks don't quite understand the ramifications and power of the internet and current technology. If you guys want to save 4-H and FFA, then fight for it because you have a very real chance of losing it by dotting the eye of the very industry that gave you the opportunity to do what you love. The USDA and FDA should be forcing these State fairs to strict testing of carcasses in an attempt to preserve the educational groups they support. And if that means every Grand and Reserve is terminal, then so be it.

[AF32197]

Great post Darren. I agree 100%! There is another site that will remove you if you bring this up. That is not the answer.

[EmsoffLambs]

I still am not understanding why the feds (FDA and USDA) are not being involved in these cases where lambs are testing dirty. I've said it before. About 15 years ago my husband worked for a large (60,000 head) beef feedlot in Colorado. On one occasion, they accidentally put a fat steer on the truck before they realized it hadn't passed the withdrawal time for a drug it had been given. They had my husband drive 16 hours round trip, put put him up in a hotel for the night and covered his meals, just so he could drive to the slaughter facility to take pictures of the steer being put on the rendering truck. Why? Because the fine for sending a steer with drug residues to slaughter was in the ballpark of twenty grand. It's NOT something the feds take likely. I get that things get tricky when people lawyer up and claim sabotage and faulty testing methods, etc. But why don't these show officials just hand it over to the feds and let them take care of all the dirty work? That's their job after all. I've also wondered why they don't put in security cameras at these bigger shows. That would eliminate the claims of sabotage. I know one fair the closes and locks up the barn after 10 pm and you have to get a security guard to open it for you after that. Not a bad idea too. And finally, WAY stiffer penalties. No showing for a year? How about for life. And with the feds involved (which they should be if this is a food safety issue), then there would be major financial penalties as well.

[Don Drewry]

Crystal, I was having the same thoughts.  It's one thing to intimidate a show into not enforcing the rules by waving the "we'll sue" card.  It's another thing if the feds decide to look at criminal prosecution.  They aren't going to fold so quick.  I suspect they don't want to "pick on 4-H kids".  I'm also guessing the house of cards will collapse real fast if their is real jail time or getting a criminal record at stake.  After further review the kids they may recant the "Yes, I do the daily feeding of my lamb, and replace it with, "I have no idea what my lamb gets fed each day, I don't buy the feed, I don't give it to the lambs, the person whose place my lamb lives at does that."

[EmsoffLambs]

Exactly. Seems to me that would be as effective a solution as anything. After all, these people are not just breaking show rules. They are breaking the law.

[karinfish]

My vet who is affiliated with UC Davis says that it is a real problem at both the county and state wide levels.  Drug testing will not stop the airing that goes on but it will stop the improper feeding and injecting of the illegal substances. Many of the fairs are now incorporating pee tests for all of the grand and reserve champions and if illegal substances are found then the prize money is forfeited.  That's it.  Prosecution will always be difficult in cases like this because chain of  custody is so hard to prove. Don't worry about letting it play out in the court systems and why let the lawyers get rich like they so often do.  Pee test all of the champions and if they test positive for anything illegal the win and all subsequent prize money is forfeit.  Period.  No excuses.  The offender perhaps will be more careful next time.       

[Bigiron59]

Karen , I believe that is what some shows  have done. They can not "prove" who gave what. But the rules state that animals testing out will forfeit prizes and exhibitors banned from showing. If shows would just enforce that rule, and not worry about who did what, it is easier.  I don't have to prove anything, other than your project tested positive for an unapproved drug. It does not matter why or how it got there. It's there. You signed a drug  affidavit. You violated that rule. And you loose. It is pretty clear.  Most of these test out after show. That animal has not gone Into market channel, as it may still be hanging in cooler.  Carcass is tanked.

[karinfish]

You got it BigIron.  Plain and simple.  I believe we should all push our county as well as state level fairs to incorporate this.  Test positive you lose. Make the parents sign an agreement so there can be no lawsuits.  All the drugging will stop and then those of us that raise a natural lamb who is fed oh heaven forbid hay and grain can compete once more.   

[SnarkyArkie]

I think a urine test for county and district level is fine, but that is the easiest test to beat next to no test at all. Stop feeding the magic 'Z' 3 days out from show day and its out of the system by pee time. I think the prestige and reward for a state fair banner deserves a little tougher test like carcass and eye scan. Just for Grand and Reserve. The idea that someone could be humiliated and banned from showing should be the deterrent. The USDA and FDA could even fund the tests and the security cameras in the barns to catch any potential saboteurs. In my town of just under 300 people I could find enough EBT fraud that the USDA could get back to put HD cameras in our state fairgrounds.

I know some say "Its always gone on and it will never stop." And that MIGHT be true but times change, things change. technology changes...Heck, Bruce Jenner changed and who saw that coming?? I think there is enough evidence and news articles online to really put a hurting on this industry. Cameras are certainly small enough and mobile enough for someone to get evidence of wrongdoing once they know where to look. You can either choose to step in front of the story and try to make changes or get caught holding the broom and the rug.

[FittersOutpost]

Urine test have advanced so much in the past few years.  In the past they were testing for ppm now testing for ppb.  The magic vita Z can be detected way farther back , that's why the blow up in test outs in recent years.   I'm glad for the testing advancement.