LAI results

[ARLambs]

Limiting Alfalfa is due to plant estrogen influence on the ewes own hormone cycle, not sure about the limiting corn.  Interesting about the wheat hay.  I had an Amish sheep farmer in Western PA, that my dad sells a lot of hay to, tell me he flushes his ewes with whole wheat, not corn, because it significantly increases his number of triplets.  Never really thought about it until you said wheat hay, maybe there is something to that.

[karinfish]

Humm that is interesting.  I have had two commercial sheep breeders make the same comments about wheat.  It is enough that I talked to my hay guy and I would have bought some wheat hay this spring but here in California it all got rained on so he didn't have any.  This next year hopefully he will have some and I will order a block and feed that during the breeding season and see if it makes a difference.  Anything to get them to cycle early.  I have found that it seems easier to get them to cycle in May than it does in June and July. Lets face it, when its 110 no one wants to make babies lol.  In the past couple week we have had a couple of drops in the temperature where it has gone to the low 80's and right on target a couple of the last hold outs that have refused to come in even with repeated CIDRS both natural cover and LAI have marked. I guess these girls just don't like the heat.     

[HTP Southdowns]

Thanks Karin,
I have read many articles as of late on limiting the Alfalfa and corn. I was just interested in what he had to say about it.

[Bigiron59]

Years ago I went to the Pipestone program winter lambing fieldtrips.
The first producer in that progam to MARKET a 200 percent lamb crop , was a keynote stop.Middle of lambing season for them. This was in like 2003 .
200 percent  lamb crop sold, is very hard to do. That is a 230 to 240 lambing percentage  or higher.
These guys lived in barn 24 a day during lambing.400 ewes or so. In the 3 hrs we were there for presentation  20 or so ewes lambed and most had trips. No grafting gates. Extra lambs went to bucket system with cold milk at birth.Never nursed  a ewe.Tubed with 2 onces of clostrum and cold milk replacer.
They were convinced  that thier flushing regime produceed that crop.
Lush pasture  and 2 lbs of the best alfalfa hay they had.  Grain raises internal body temp on ewes and that is not conducive  to embry retention.
My recolection of the estrogenic  effect of alfalfa,  is that it is only in grazing green.Dried hay ,has very limited effect. Most alfalfa  hay is cured at least  90 days before feeding, and the estrogen, like most all of the vitamins,  have long since volotized into the atmosphere.

[Califmom]

I am curious about the 90 day curing of alfalfa. I can only guess it depends on where you live? In California I have always fed alfalfa as soon as it's delivered from the field. The only thing I may do different is if I have left over alfalfa from the prior year I'll mix the old and new together for the horse to get him acclimated to it. This year my bale size averaged 127 lbs in a stack of 80 bales.

[Bigiron59]

you dont feed all the hay , the day you get it. I put up hay in june ,july ,august and sept. Yes I feed some right away. but also feed some that is 12 months old.

[Califmom]

I see. I did a little search yesterday only to find there are people who won't feed new hay and let it sit awhile before using it which was a new one on me. Yeah I usually use up my stash in around 9 months then spot buy until I'm ready to get a stack in, usually July/August.

[Kirfeather]

I have heard that both alfalfa and corn digest "hot" and will increase the ewe's internal body temp causing less efficient settling. I cannot find a reference at the moment. I believe I was told this information at our LAI clinic by the tech. A corn free concentrate and grass hay were recommended.

[Don Drewry]

Bigiron, I don't have an opinion on whether alfalfa is good or bad for # of lambs born.  I've never fed alfalfa that time of year as we save it for ewe's with lambs or late gestation.  We don't save for any other reason than the nutritional needs of the ewes are much higher later so that's when we give the best hay. 

Our protocol for triplets or twins from a ewe with half an udder is very similar to what the high producer does.  We pull the odd sized triplet off the ewe immediately and tube it with colostrum.  We aim for an ounce per pound in the first 12 hours so apparently we give them quite bit more.  I don't like lambs on the lamb bar getting to eat from mom at all.  I think they train on the bar much quicker if they've only sucked on the lamb bar.  I don't even like giving them a bottle.  It's the tube or the lamb bar.  That way the only way for them to satisfy their sucking instinct is to learn to use the lamb bar.  Seems to work pretty good. It always takes a lot longer to train a lamb that for whatever reason has been on a ewe some number of days.

[Bigiron59]

Been reading some info just recently on importance of quality protein source for cows , during all  stages of production.But most importantly ,during breeding season. can't harvest ,what you don't plant.
Be interesting to see spring results.  I paid particular attention to high protein/vit level during breeding.  With only ewe lambs left to breed,and breeding in 14 day windows.
100 percent of ewes bred in that 14 day window and 1 ewe out of 128 rebred at 2nd cycle.
all wether type ewe lambs are will be cidred for 7 days.
No pg 600
This protocol resulted in 100 percent breeding and only 1 rebreed at 34 days , 2 years ago. Last year ,used a 10 to 14 day CIDR, based on others recommendation. Won't due that again.
This ewe ewes /lambs are in best condition ever. Hoping for good outcome.
Et results have been preg checked.
60 percent pregnant over all. 1 donor 0 pregnant. Other ewe implanted 8 and have 6 pregnant. Happy with that.