Infertile ram

[EmsoffLambs]

What is standard procedure in this situation?

I bought a mature ram in partnership with another breeder. Had him hauled here in early June and my partner turned him out with a half dozen CIDRed ewes. He marked them, but they all just ultrasounded open. He's been with another handful of ewes and remarked them three or four times. Just had him semen checked and in her words, "He is all bad.......less than 40% viable sperm, slow motility, 60% gross abnormalities, ie; separated heads/tails, somethng called mid piece droplets, which basically looks like it's folded in half and causes it to go in circles....He says there is no way to know if/when he'll improve but at this point he is not producing enough good semen to get these ewes bred." So we have had this ram nearly three months and he has not settled a single ewe.

I contacted the seller prior to the semen test to give him a heads up and his only response was that he sired 30+ lambs last year. Obviously I don't believe the seller knowingly sold us an infertile ram. But what would be standard procedure here? Are we just out our money or is the seller obligated to refund our money? I know what I would do myself if I were in his shoes, but ethically/legally, what happens in this situation? There was no discussion about guaranteed fertility, but is it implied when you sell a ram? I just want to know what is reasonable to ask for/expect, if anything.

[Heresheep]

Crystal, I've experienced the situation at least twice.  The first was from a ram that I purchased in Sedalia.  Had him checked and his semen was not good; mal-formed, broken tails... I contacted the breeder, who was very good and offered a replacement if he didn't get better.  (he did get better after a few months) The other time, the sterility was caused from excessive heat (according to the vet), I contacted the breeder, to let him know about the condition and he sent semen to cover the open ewes.  If it were me, I'd offer a replacement or a credit.  Good luck with him.

[Don Drewry]

In general my experience is that rams are guaranteed to be breeders in the long run but not the short run.  So, in the event a ram isn't settling ewes the first step is to have a semen test done.  Based on that test and the vet's opinion you determine if he's permanently sterile or possibly temporarily sterile.    If after a few months, you retest and he's still sterile than in almost every case I know of the seller makes good on the guarantee.  If he's temporarily sterile and you've not ever gotten lambs out of him, it's not uncommon for the seller to offer a temporary fix such as a backup ram or semen like stated above.

The guarantee would tend to be buyers choice of, comparable ram or return of money.  In most states a stud sold would be implicitly assumed to be good for breeding and small claims court would support the guarantee even if not explicitly stated in the selling agreement.

[ARLambs]

Did the seller provide you with a semen test prior to shipping the ram?  Shipping can be really hard on fertility.  Siring 30 lambs only proves that he was fertile 1yr ago, not that he was fertile just prior to the sale.  When we have shipped rams long distances, we have semen check prior to sale to hold as proof of fertility at time of sale.  Then explain that the buyer is responsible for fertility issues that occur do to disease or transport stress.  If they have that, then I would say you are stuck for at least another 60 days to see if he remains infertile, or if it is temporary do to transport.

[EmsoffLambs]

No semen test prior to shipping that I am aware of. I was attributing it to shipping stress, but that was 11 weeks ago. Everything I have read says it takes 8 weeks for the production of viable semen. So I figured if it was shipping stress, he would have been good three weeks ago. We will be having the ram retested in a couple weeks by Glen Erickson and will get his opinion on the long-term outlook. If he just needs more time, so be it. But if it's a permanent problem, then I need to know how to proceed.

[Bigiron59]

40 percent viable should  be settling some ewes. They produce billions of cells per ejacualate. And normally breed each ewe multiple times. He may nit settle a lot of ewes. And its plenty  early yet.
Everyone seems to think bf sheep ,both  ewes and rams, should  be very fertile in july. Its not so. Would venture  its a combination  of both  questional fertility of ram , and ewes  not  very fertile yet either. Would assume he will settle some  ewes  next cycle.
Has this  ram been tested clean of B Ovis?
A possiblity that he is infected.
Another reason not to share rams or buy old rams.

[EmsoffLambs]

June bred ewes all ultrasound. August bred ewes all recycled at least three times. Glen Erickson seemed to think he would be able to concentrate the semen and get some ewes bred via AI. He also was hopeful that he would improve base on the report. He will retest the ram himself in 10 days. I don't need to use him for another month. Hopefully he will be fertile by then.

[Bigiron59]

june bred ewes are rare for most. Trying to figure out how how an August bred ewe ,has recycled  3 time.  17 day cycle . If bred august 1st, then would be back on August 18th,Sept 4th,and September 21st.Maybe sheep cycle differently  in other areas.  here they are every 17 days.Regular as a clock.

[EmsoffLambs]

Come on. So the first breedings were in July, then a couple more times in August. The point is the ewes were cycling, the ram was covering them and they weren't sticking. This breeder CIDRs and breeds in June every year. Of course they don't all stick but some should. That's how people get fall lambs. This ram's fertility is sub par, regardless of season. We are hoping he improves but if he does not, I was wanting to know what standard procedure is. That's it. I understand basic sheep reproduction and yes, sometimes I generalize to save typing.

[Bigiron59]

Just had a ram Collected .He was very fertile. Got  8 ml on an ejaculate, and had to extend  twice what considered normal  to even get a good count.
He had bred 20 ewes from august 14 to august 28.
This was done t Iowa State.
They have tested a lot of rams,10 the day I was there.
over fifty  percent  were as yours is. I was glad mine was good and successfully  froze semen. And survived post thaw.
Point being, they test hundreds of rams per year, and many will fail until late august or september.
A lot of rams have been sidelined in midwest,because of heat ,humidity  .
May take 8 weeks to recover. An agressive mineral program seems to help. As does shade,breeding at night,fans and manageing breeding to conserve ram serving  capacity. Maybe you have been lucky , and not had a problem .

Based on semen test, your ram is producing . You would be hard  pressed to collect anything.Most auctions  have specific  criteria to deem a ram non producer.Including returning to breeder ,at your cost.The ram has to be in at least as good of condition, weight as when you recieved him. And breeder has right to use ram himself.If he settles ewes for breeder , your out.

That being said, I have sold one bad ram .15 plus years ago, a ram lamb sold at Sedalia to Pennsylvania.  Buyer noticed ram lamb remarking,tested and 100 percent  deformed.
They bred ewes to back up ram, and waited 3 months to retest. Still dead.
Sent ram to sale barn.They took pick out of my Sedalia consignment the following  summer.And sent me check for salvage value of ram.I did not ask for or expect that.They were happy with replacement. I could  have had them return ram.O trusted thier vet.

Talk to the breeder,and see what they have to say.
This one may be chalked up to tution.
Sometimes you pay to play

[Bigiron59]

and I would  be looking at a ewe problem. Either mineral, heat or low level infection.
With what he is producing,he should have settled one or 2.
Not all breeding failures are the rams fault.

[karinfish]

It was very hot in June so perhaps the ram was heat stressed as Cindy mentioned happened to her ram above. With Glen coming in a couple weeks it may be that he is improving and since you don't have a benchmark perhaps that is the case. I am sure Glen has recommended that you feed him wheat germ oil to help improve his semen quality. I got a ram back that had a massive infection but it took over six months.

[Deemer]

How much wheat germ oil do you give Karen?

[EmsoffLambs]

Yes, I would like to know the amount as well. Certainly wouldn't hurt to try!

[karinfish]

I give a couple of table spoons morning and night over a little bit of grain. These are usually older Rams so not much grain. You can but the wheat germ oil at Tractor Supply. In the horse section.