Messages

16

All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Ketosis and Keto Gel

« on: February 13, 2017, 04:19:20 pm »

Sorry Rex, I corrected Crystal's butchering of my name and then saw you were having fun at one of our expenses.  By that time, I figured I'd  just delete the "after notes"

17

All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Feeding ewe lambs to lamb as yearlings

« on: January 28, 2017, 11:48:28 am »

Our ewe lambs do best on 14% protein 2-2.5 lbs per day of grain & free choice alfalfa.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: what do you guys do to keep a lamb fresh?

« on: January 28, 2017, 11:47:11 am »

Our state rules are lambs are supposed to be born after Jan 1 of the year.  The state FFA show is always Labor Day weekend (so first weekend of September), and the state 4-H show is always one week before.  A lot of our lambs that don't get killed at the state shows get shown at Askarben about 3 weeks later.  So, the bulk of the competitive lambs are with a month of the age of the lamb you want to have shown Jim.
 
I've always struggled with the concepts of Fresh and Stale, but our lambs that the judged have liked the most we usually had put on 5-10 pounds their last 2-3 weeks.  The egg drench helps with this but you can also use some of the Honor supplements.  Very important to keep the lambs hydrated.  I'll disagree with Shane on this.  It's not just genetics but there is a limit in my opinion how long you can keep a lamb near it's peak.  Rarely are the lambs I see in the June or early July jackpot shows that look the best the same lambs that are best end of August.

If it's a ewe lamb it will be harder as depending on their exact genetics they start to get broodier looking around 8-10 months age and there isn't much you can do about that.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Ewe weak back end

« on: January 13, 2017, 04:31:42 pm »

You can test for Ketones with strips you can buy at the drug store.  They are cheap, you need to catch some pee and it will tell you if she at ketosis.  At this stage, I would doubt it but you can check.  Ewes with this also have acetone breath.

It could also be a damaged nerve, or issue with a disc, or a variety of other issues including a slight injury

20

All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Burch online sale

« on: January 04, 2017, 01:48:46 pm »

Have you got to watch Kolby judge?  I always like listening to  his reasons.  Little more colorful and enthusiastic than most judges.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Happy New Year!

« on: January 03, 2017, 10:05:25 am »

I too would like a barn cam.  Told people that was the right X-Mas present but they didn't think so.  :-(

Up to this year our ewes have been extremely consistent.  Pull CIDRs, put ram in next day.  First ewes will lamb 145 days later and be evenly distributed for about 6 days, and then 2 days of less lambs.  Well, they didn't pay attention to the program as lambing should have started yesterday.  Even the ewe that was first to lamb 4 years in a row, and last year missed first place by 4 hours hasn't lambed yet.  Of course, I'm going out of town at the end of this window. :-(

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Honor supplements

« on: January 02, 2017, 08:08:21 pm »

Lindsey, see this page by  Honor, https://www.purinamills.com/find-answers/articles/show-animals/strategies-for-feeding-modern-showlambs

For a description of the supplements, see https://www.purinamills.com/show-animal-food/products?specie=supplements

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: feeding ewes during gestation

« on: December 27, 2016, 10:17:40 am »

From the first day I had the revised rule explained to me I have been of the opinion that the weak chain in this potential loop hole for sheep is the part of the feed mill in the process.  Find one that is willing you should be fine but that might be a lot easier said than done.  My vets have indicated they are willing to write a VFD but that alone doesn't get you the product in your grainery.  I do have a mill willing to custom mix sheep feed per my formulation but as they should if I want a product requiring vet approval they want a script, but we haven't crossed the VFD threshold for sheep yet.

24

All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: feeding ewes during gestation

« on: December 27, 2016, 05:50:50 am »

Shane, if the vets and/or feed mills are not correctly reading the definition of Extralabel that is disturbing but it's in rather plain English from the FDA post I linked to above.

" "Extralabel use" means actual use or intended use of a drug in an animal in a manner that is not in accordance with the approved labeling.  This includes, but is not limited to, use in species not listed in the labeling, use for indications (disease or other conditions) not listed in the labeling, use at dosage levels, frequencies, or routes of administration other than those stated in the labeling, and deviation from the labeled withdrawal time based on these different uses.  (21 CFR § 530.3(a)). "

Yes, use for species on the label for EITHER a different disease or at a higher rate IS Extralabel use.  I suspect part of the idea the product is not effective is that it may be taking about 8 times the label rate to be effective for abortion.

The same text is on the official FDA page that defines Extralabel use: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/GuidanceComplianceEnforcement/ActsRulesRegulations/ucm085377.htm

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: feeding ewes during gestation

« on: December 26, 2016, 06:43:51 am »

This is the revised FDA document for extralabel VFD  that would apply to sheep.  http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov-public/@fdagov-afda-ice/documents/webcontent/ucm074659.pdf

1. If you need to feed aureomycin to control abortion it should be possible BUT you have to follow the VFD
2. The VFD is something you get from YOUR vet.  There has to be a vet / client relationship which most states have determined must include 1 or 2 farm visits from the vet per year.
3. You've got to keep the records for 2 years and other requirements for your vet.
4. Extralabel by definition includes using the product at a higher dosage than the label.  So this would allow higher doses than 80 mg.
5.  There are 3 parties to a VFD, the vet, the client (farmer), AND the feed mill.  Even if you get a VFD that is per the dose you and your vet need you still need to have a feed mill willing to mix the feed per the VFD and sell it to you.  We will see how this works out.  It could be that we can buy the same bags of 4G aureomycin we used to be able to buy and the feed mill stamps the bags with something like, "ONLY FOR USE WITH VFD xxxxxx, ILLEGAL TO FEED TO ANY OTHER LIVESTOCK or OTHER ANIMALS FOR ANY PURPOSE".  Or the feed mill may only sell it if it is mixed into a large batch.  For strategies of feeding the product not every day  I don't see how that would work.
6. If a feed mill is willing to sell the aureomycin they too have to keep records and I presume the cost of said bag is going to be more than it was at  your local farm supply store this year.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: I am kicking around the ideal of A.I.

« on: December 25, 2016, 11:42:21 pm »

Jim, I used LAI two years ago and have a really nice set of keeper ewes out of that.  Sold a few nice wethers, didn't get a keeper ram.  Last year we didn't use it as I'd bought a new buck.  This year we also didn't use LAI as I bought another new ram.  This coming year I plan to use LAI again.  Penciling out the cost of the rams I want, I think it's going to be cheaper to at least use LAI every other year if not every year.  Most of the lambs that won the shows we sold lambs at were bred by LAI or from the farms that supplied those studs.  It's been proven in other species if  you don't use AI and your competition does, your not going to be a player for long.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Individual feeding pens

« on: December 25, 2016, 05:37:27 am »

We used lambing jugs as feeding pens. They worked well used the same feeders and water pails we used at lambing time. About the 3rd day of feeding it was easy to put the right lamb in the right pen.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: Merry Christmas

« on: December 25, 2016, 05:35:50 am »

Merry Christmas to all, hope the year end's very well for you.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: feeding ewes during gestation

« on: December 22, 2016, 09:26:15 pm »

I asked Dan directly about vitamin mixes.  My recollection is how long they last depends on if you are mixing into a batch of free choice mineral or into your batch of feed directly.  We mix vitamins right into our ewe ration.  A batch may last 4 to 8 weeks depending on how many tons I have delivered.  His answer was in that paradigm that vitamins were going to last just fine.

The VFD and sheep as a minor sheep I think is still an open question.  In theory it appears there will be a path to feed effective does of aureomycin top dressed to ewes as an abortion preventative BUT personally I doubt at feed mill will sell sheep producers the product for that purpose as it would allow other species producers to claim that loop hole and use it for cattle or swine.  There may be a path for it, but it will depend if the feed supply chain thinks the risk of abuse outweighs the modest income the sheep industry will bring them.

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All Sheep and Lamb Discussion / Re: feeding ewes during gestation

« on: December 22, 2016, 07:49:15 am »

In my experience when we added club lamb to our Polypay ewes you get a much bigger performance response from club lamb sheep with a higher protein level than white face ewes.  It makes sense to me a their is just more muscle to build on these sheep.  I think Shane is right, Morrical's and some others research is showing most sheep fed in a commercial operation respond to better quality protein (not just higher percentage) and vitamins added.  Assume after 3 months  your hays vitamins are mostly gone.