Weak yearling ewe

[Polymom]

So last Thursday, we had a weak yearling ewe, bred to lamb the beginning of April.  When she stood, her back end was very shaky and she immediately laid down again.  She didn't have a temp but was shivering.  She continued to get worse throughout the day but continued eating well, didn't look in pain, and was very alert.  The vet finally got back to us and was pretty clueless about what it could be so had us give her A,D, and E, Bo-Se, propylene glycol, and penicillin.  She continued getting weaker.  Early Saturday my daughter was able to connect with her former university prof who said that the lab farm had a ewe like that last year and to give her calcium gluconate either IV or just under the skin.  Within an hour she was showing some improvement and has continued to steadily improve to the point that she gets up easily and walks short distances just a bit stiffly.  The sheep are getting decent grass hay with some alfalfa in it.  We have never had a calcium issue before and are stumped as to the cause but happy that she is on the mend.  The prof said if anyone else looks weak to mix lime and salt to get them extra calcium. 

[EmsoffLambs]

Are you feeding grain too? I would be nervous adding calcium to the salt as they could easily get too much, which can cause other issues.

[sheepherder007]

Calcium is one of the GOOD minerals and have never heard of toxicity problems using it.  Would like to know if there have been problems using it.   Phosphorous is the one that causes more problems.  Namely stones in male sheep but even high levels of phosphorous can be overcome with the addition of calcium (limestone).
We add limestone to show lambs on high grain rations regularly.

[Bigiron59]

White iodized salt mixed 50/50 with feed lime. Has worked for 1000's of ewes in my area. Grazing ewes on corn stalks,standard protocal.  Actually use TM salt with SE and Cuts. Some just dump a bag of feed lime in bunk.
Consumption is better if mixed with salt,as that ewe WILL eat salt and what ever is mixed it it .

[Bigiron59]

Assuming any hay, has "enough" calcium in it ,is dangerous.
It would be better to "assume" it had very little. Calcium is realively cheap to supplement.
I "assume" my have has very little. A mineral test last fall,as part of a state wide forage sampling study Dr Morrical did, showed my hay was lower than average in calcium. To be expected. Most of my hay, is harvested from road ditches along paved roads. So no "dust" blows in from the road. That dust , is high in calcium.
Also showed my hay, was low in ash, which means I am not raking dirt into my hay. Dirt is heavy, so when selling hay by the ton, it adds weight.
Also showed MY hay , was high in molyenum.
So high, he was worried about copper shortages. I will NOT be adding copper, but make sure that my cal /phos is at least 2 to 1 in my final ration and maybe higher.
All of his samples ,indicated calcium was needed. Even with alfalafa. Scavanging calcium from the ewes bones ,the last weeks of gestation and during lactation, is no longer good practice.

[EmsoffLambs]

My concern with adding calcium to the salt without knowing hay contents would be that it would cause a phosphorus deficiency. I worked up our own ration and started topdressing an appropriate amount of oyster shell (can't seem to find lime here) to their grain ration. You can get as high as 8:1 calcium:phosphorus ratio, so there is quite a bit of wiggle room.

[sheepherder007]

Calcium is the safe side of the ratio and as you said can be considerably higher.   It is cheap.  Feed grade limestone is available on e-bay for $1/lb. delivered.  I can get it at feed mill for half that but freight is what drives costs here.  Ammonium Chloride is available for around $30 for 25 Kg bag.  I would not be afraid to add to salt if I was having problems.

[sheepherder007]

From dealing with a swimming pool I know our water is higher than normal in calcium so do not have a lot of issue with calcium deficiency.  Cereal grains are normally high in phosphorus and if you want a scare look at phosphorus in wheat mids and wheat byproduct feeds.  You see a lot of wheat by product use in feed rations in our area- again due to readily available source.
Western Okla is a source area for sheet rock for construction and therein relates to our soil calcium availability. Gypsum is  a Calcium sulfate hydrate.
Will note that any weakness in bred ewe/doe is addressed with calcium gluconate immediately and followed with cal/MPK drench.  I like this approach from standpoint that the calcium products are also great for stress relief in sheep/goats.   This is more of an issue in our milk/boer goats than our sheep.

[Bigiron59]

I don't think anyone needs to worry about 2 little phosphorous in a sheep ration.
 Ask a dairy nutritionist, how much of the calcium in hay , is utilized ? Then maybe we can quit worrying about hay, supplying calcium. Just because its in there,does not mean its available.

Let me put it this way. When I feed the best alafala hay, sheep mineral, and corn, I had the highest incidence of water belly,milk fever,ketosis,retained placenta, ringwomb,prolpase, weak lambs and white muscle.
 Since removing most of those ingredients from my ration, and using tm salts with se and vits, making sure cal /phos was at least 2/ 1 and higher during late gest/lacation,  have had very little problem
My nutritional consult, feeds thousands of ewes and dairy cows ,including research and university flocks. And balances ewe rations ,like dairy cows.
And he would rather see mostly grass hay in the ration.For lost of reasons.
But ewes can utilize most any feed stuff. As long as you can fix the mineral imbalance , they will be fine.

[Polymom]

The ewe is doing great besides her one back leg looking a bit stiff.  She is back in with the rest of the yearling ewes and we are keeping a close eye on her and the rest but no problems with any of the others.

[Betania]

How much calcium gluconate did you use? We had a ewe and a lamb act just like that, and our vets had no clue either. We took them to two different vets, and neither one was able to help. I'd like to know in case our other sheep have the same problems later on. Thanks!

[Polymom]

None of us can remember.  Maybe there was an amount to give on the bottle.  This ewe acts completely normal and looks like she will be giving us lambs is spite of her problems.

[Polymom]

The amount was 100 ml for two days.  The ewe lambed last week with a nice 9.5 pound ram lamb and isn't showing any symptoms at all of her past problem.

[EmsoffLambs]

Good news!

[Betania]

Thank you!