feeding ewes during gestation

[henry.paris]

I used to feed whole corn during the last 6 weeks of gestation but when my family started raising club lamb/ wether type ewes they did not seem to do as well and we switched to feeding a commercial 12% sheep feed. I feed at a rate of 3/4-1 lb daily along with good quality grass hay. After lambing I switch the ewes to alfalfa hay and increase the pounds of the 12% sheep feed. My question is with lower corn and SBM prices what would be a ration I could have mixed at the coop that would be good? What do other producers feed?

[EmsoffLambs]

When we were feeding alfalfa and corn, four pounds alfalfa and gradually increasing to 1 1/2 lbs corn the last six weeks did the ewes well. I would increase to six lbs alfalfa and 2 lbs corn for lactation. If you are feeding a more average quality grass hay, you may be a bit short on protein so adding 1/4-1/2 lb SBM, depending on hay quality will help with milk production.

[Honey Tree]

Crystal, is your corn also whole?

[EmsoffLambs]

Yes.

[Bigiron59]

The bigger issue may be lack of calcium, and low vitamin level in your ration.  Grass hay would need supplement with bits,mineral, and protein.
People with a hand full of ewes ,would be best served by mixing 500 lbs or commercial sheep supplement with 1500 pounds of grain  and feeding at least a pound of that from 6 weeks before lambing and 2 pounds or more after lambing and free choice good grass hay.
 If feeding alfalfa, I would still mix 300 per ton of commercial supplement and 1800 corn. Alfalfa may ot may not provide enough bits,protein ECT.
Your ewes not doing well on corn and hay ,suggests a low protein diet. If protein needs are not met,she will not get enough out of the roughage and energy.
Wether dams ,have higher protein needs.
Just went to a sheep presentation about this ,where Dan Morrical was presenting on importance of high vit levels as well as high enough protein levels.
He had done mineral analysis on 20 lots of hay,including one of mine.
Mine and one other sample ,had enough calcium, and micro minerals. Mine was actually quite low in copper and quite high in molybdenum,which can cause a problem.
Lots of producers ,were wanting to feed alfalfa hay and she'll corn, and free choice tm salt and vets.
Dan cautioned against that. Simply not enough vits or minerals in hay .
This was some of his latest work, and testing these hay samples ,was quite costly. Roughly 6000 for the 23 samples.
But all of the hay samples ,had mineral and vit inbalances.
In all cases , a vit and  mineral supplement is needed.
And easiest for most ,is commercial sheep protein supplement ,added to grain.

[Don Drewry]

In my experience when we added club lamb to our Polypay ewes you get a much bigger performance response from club lamb sheep with a higher protein level than white face ewes.  It makes sense to me a their is just more muscle to build on these sheep.  I think Shane is right, Morrical's and some others research is showing most sheep fed in a commercial operation respond to better quality protein (not just higher percentage) and vitamins added.  Assume after 3 months  your hays vitamins are mostly gone.

[Bigiron59]

Morrical also had done some preliminary testing and analysis on mineral,vit mixes.
The addition of vitamins in mineral mixes is the norm. He preliminary data,seen marked reduction in vitamin levels in mineral mixes over a couple months from manufacture date. The mineral ,oxidizes the vitamins. So feeding "off the shelf" from a farm store is likely feeding only mineral.

The vitamins in a pellet stay.
Hence ,the advantage of feeding a commercial sheep balancer for the adverage small producer,if needing protein
In my case,I feed a base mix ,but also add another set at mixing. Which is now what Morrical is doing.  A mineral ,salt,vit mix is mixed every Saturday. Enough to last each pen of ewes a week. And fed free choice.
If they run out in 5 days, they are out a couple.
I mix mine in my grain,soyhyll,ddgs mix and mix a ton at a time. That last about ten days tops. And less during lacatation.
If I was not doing this,I would be using a custom pellet, so could add what I needed.

The veterinary feed directives, will also make some of this a bit more challenging.

[Bigiron59]

As to veterinary feed directive and sheep being declared a monor species. It means nothing.
Extra label use rules still apply.
Most vets are going to use the electronic submission form for the feed mill.
So that form with only allow labeled rate of aureomycin, which is 80 mg per head per day. That is the label.
The only way ,is for your vet to hand write a script. And no feed mills here will take those.
Also expect a charge to write that script.
And a vet client relation, expects that a vet is on your yard ,at least two times a year.
Asking a vet or the Minnesota place, is not the same.

Many other nuances to this. Bottom line,best be calling your vet now,to see what you will need to do after first of year.
Some work ,done with vets here, indicate that an "effective level" of areo to help with late term abortion is around 32lbs of 10 gram product, per ewe ,per day.
Obviously that is not happening, so getting a vet to write a script for abortion ,is not going to happen.
Some producers have stockpiled product, and you still need the "paperwork" to feed that product ,after 1st of year.
Are the feds gonna come looking? Likely not,but might.
Water dispensable are still permitted, extra label.
Still gonna need that script.
My plan has been made months ago, and my vet is actively invloved.
Not really gonna change a lot,other than move to water dispensable products.

[Don Drewry]

I asked Dan directly about vitamin mixes.  My recollection is how long they last depends on if you are mixing into a batch of free choice mineral or into your batch of feed directly.  We mix vitamins right into our ewe ration.  A batch may last 4 to 8 weeks depending on how many tons I have delivered.  His answer was in that paradigm that vitamins were going to last just fine.

The VFD and sheep as a minor sheep I think is still an open question.  In theory it appears there will be a path to feed effective does of aureomycin top dressed to ewes as an abortion preventative BUT personally I doubt at feed mill will sell sheep producers the product for that purpose as it would allow other species producers to claim that loop hole and use it for cattle or swine.  There may be a path for it, but it will depend if the feed supply chain thinks the risk of abuse outweighs the modest income the sheep industry will bring them.

[Bigiron59]

I have been to two meetings. And will be going to another sheep specific. It means nothing. Feed mills, if they will even sell you a bag of aureomycin,will have to follow the written label. 80 mgs per head per day.
The speculation is that most will not sell to any new customers, and several will not likely make any more sheep feed. They will handle premanufactured  bagged feed.
Not worth the risk for the miniscule feed volume.
That is where the minor species and extra label comes into play. I can use sulfa in water , with vet scrip, but can not use aureo  in feed at any rate other that what it's labeled for.
I can use terramycin powder in water.

It's gonna depend on what risk your vet is willing to make. His name and the retailer who you bought it from ,are the ones who will be audited first. MY retailer , has said ,he will follow the feed directive and that is labeled rate. He has to.
The minor species declaration is basically meaningless. 2 feed mills will no longer carry aureo  here. They simply are not going to risk anything.
This will be game changer for all species. I would expect longer term,it will make producers better managers. I expect short-term,the rendering business will be busier.
It's already been in play ,for some hog meds, so they know what the short falls are. And many hog ops are trying to manage biosecurity better, and have done away with a large portion of feed grades.
As stated, all vets here,use the electronic versions of the feed directive.
The one working with couple of small producer, buys the product and hand writes the scrip, selling the Areo himself. Most vets are not going to be selling bags of feed grade.
Maybe yours will.
With livestock industry in the billions ,in my area, nope.
1 large independent feed mill,has sold out to a multi state in last few weeks.
They are not taking chances. The independents are likely where you can get a custom.
And if you can still, it will add cost

Most big feed mills ,will have to add at least one position,just to take care of paper work and compliance. Figure thrown about ,from one mill invloved in the one meeting , was 75 to 90 percent of the VFD they received on the few hogs drugs ,right now are wrong. And they need to call vets and get them right,before they make feed. The electronic will not let you make a mistake,unless you lie.
When your enter species it populated fields automatically,

So when you enter ovine ,you have 1 feed choice .Areo

And you have 1 disease. 80 mg per head.
The only other fields you can change are number of head and days of feed.
Pretty much goof proof,unless your intent is to lie.
And I don't remember how may 'refills" you get.
Not many.
It's good for a bit,but not for a year.

While language may be vague and interpretation may vary  depending on who's reading,. I am betting your feed vendor  has a very clear idea, Of how they are going to handle it.
At least ,in my area ,it's very clear.

[Don Drewry]

This is the revised FDA document for extralabel VFD  that would apply to sheep.  http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov-public/@fdagov-afda-ice/documents/webcontent/ucm074659.pdf

1. If you need to feed aureomycin to control abortion it should be possible BUT you have to follow the VFD
2. The VFD is something you get from YOUR vet.  There has to be a vet / client relationship which most states have determined must include 1 or 2 farm visits from the vet per year.
3. You've got to keep the records for 2 years and other requirements for your vet.
4. Extralabel by definition includes using the product at a higher dosage than the label.  So this would allow higher doses than 80 mg.
5.  There are 3 parties to a VFD, the vet, the client (farmer), AND the feed mill.  Even if you get a VFD that is per the dose you and your vet need you still need to have a feed mill willing to mix the feed per the VFD and sell it to you.  We will see how this works out.  It could be that we can buy the same bags of 4G aureomycin we used to be able to buy and the feed mill stamps the bags with something like, "ONLY FOR USE WITH VFD xxxxxx, ILLEGAL TO FEED TO ANY OTHER LIVESTOCK or OTHER ANIMALS FOR ANY PURPOSE".  Or the feed mill may only sell it if it is mixed into a large batch.  For strategies of feeding the product not every day  I don't see how that would work.
6. If a feed mill is willing to sell the aureomycin they too have to keep records and I presume the cost of said bag is going to be more than it was at  your local farm supply store this year.

[Bigiron59]

Your interpretation is not what the feed mills or vets are saying or doing Don. Because aureo IS labeled for feed use in sheep,extra label does not apply. Labeled rate has to be followed. If sheep directions ,had come off the label,it would be much easier to rationalize use.
Extra label,only applies to drugs ,not labeled for species.
That is the interpretation of the vets working with producers here, and ruling of all feed mills in MY area. Even IF your vet gives a script, non will fill it. Their option.
I think a lot of confusion is still involved. And vets here ,would like all over the counter of antibiotics stopped.
I can go into my fleet store or feed store, buy a bottle of pen g, over dose my animal. Since my vet ,that I use , did not sell me the drug, he has no invlovement. Yet he is still on the hook, if drug residues are Invloved.
This directive is only the beginning of what's to come.
Get a vet on board ,with being invloved in your sheep operation. And follow his direction,including buying your drugs through him. It will protect you and him.
Some vets will likely 'opt' out of sheep work,or taking new clients .
Perhaps ,if we have strong voices legislatively, this can be resolved. But looking for the "loopholes" , will only make more regulation,the reality.

[EmsoffLambs]

You all just need to be glad you aren't in California. Our fine governor passed at the same time that ALL antibiotics are now prescription only. Starting Sunday, no running to the feed store for a bottle of penicillin and now ordering a bottle of spectam online.

As far as aureomycin and abortion control, I have dealt with two abortion storms and both times Aureomycin was completely ineffective at preventing and stopping the abortions. The first I was feeding AS700 but was dealing with a resistant strain of campylobacter. It took Nuflor injections to stop. The second storm we never identified the cause but Aureomycin and Nuflor both were ineffective. A thorough vaccination program seems to have it under control. So my point is, Aureomycin may be a tool, but it is not the only tool and not necessarily the most effective. I personally won't bother with it anymore and won't miss it either. The sulfa drenches are going to be the far bigger concern IMO.

[Bigiron59]

 I would agree. Ems. Aureo. may infact have a good "placebo" effect on producers. Here, it had good result in dealing with foot issues, and I believe a rigorous, vaccination regime, and biosecurity, may have more to do, with 0 abortions last year.  Last year, 0 ewes were brought in, 0 shared rams( british work ,indicates that some previously infected ewes, shed a lot off bacteria during estrus,infecting rams , during mating, which spread  that to uninfected ewes during mating)" my worst wrecks , were with my lambs ,leased to other producers. When I brought those rams back to breed late season, the abortions started in a couple weeks".
I also have only used virgin rams, for several years . This year, I will see, I leased a ram, but he had not been used, this year,before coming here, and I used one of mine early, then leased him out. When both of these were brought in, they were fed aureo , for 7 days, before being run with my breeding gruop.  Aureo, may have value, used like this, but some recent date, shows its is completely ineffective in preventing abortions, when fed  late gestating ewes.
The meetings ,I have been to, have again been about bio-security. And that  outbreaks, usually occur, when outside ewes are brought in, or using shared rams.

Both those issues can be addressed, with ET and AI. Maybe I buy that stud ewe, and leave her where she was born. Taking her to a et facility and having embryo's harvested. To mitigate more risk, they are frozen, and brought to my farm, to be implanted in my recipts, which were born here. And using frozen or fresh semen. Although fresh semen, has a higher risk, of spreading some diseases. Freezing, effectively kills, anything we are worried about, in sheep. 

as I move forward. sharing rams, becomes less and less of an option.

[Don Drewry]

Shane, if the vets and/or feed mills are not correctly reading the definition of Extralabel that is disturbing but it's in rather plain English from the FDA post I linked to above.

" "Extralabel use" means actual use or intended use of a drug in an animal in a manner that is not in accordance with the approved labeling.  This includes, but is not limited to, use in species not listed in the labeling, use for indications (disease or other conditions) not listed in the labeling, use at dosage levels, frequencies, or routes of administration other than those stated in the labeling, and deviation from the labeled withdrawal time based on these different uses.  (21 CFR § 530.3(a)). "

Yes, use for species on the label for EITHER a different disease or at a higher rate IS Extralabel use.  I suspect part of the idea the product is not effective is that it may be taking about 8 times the label rate to be effective for abortion.

The same text is on the official FDA page that defines Extralabel use: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/GuidanceComplianceEnforcement/ActsRulesRegulations/ucm085377.htm